I don't need any green card

DUT stands for Diplôme Universitaire des Technologies. I think I don't need to give you a translation in English. It is a two years school that forms future technicians. Some IUT (school name that delivers this degree) are enough good to send their students in Engineering schools in France and even in some great British or American Universities. Show me one American who got an average degree and can enter in a French Grand Ecole

I did not insinuate that you personally needed or had a green card - also I did not really want to know what DUT stood for - I was just taking the piss - surely as a fWoggie you are used to that - also why would I want 'to show you an american' I am in Wales UK - and I could 'show' you a Welshman that has two first class honors degrees - one in mechanical engineering, one in electrical engineering, he also has an MBA - and because he was bored he has now taken up learning Japaneese to compliment his german and italian that he can speak and write fluently, his Spanish is (according to him) passable and he knows enough 'Stinkie' to tell you how to fuck off or similar insult - and at thirty three years of age that is not bad considering he has held a full time job since leaving the university after his first degree - now perhaps his qualifications do not interest you , or make you jealous, but it sure does me who has just the one common City and Guilds in mechanical engineering called OND - Ordiary National Diploma, not even the higher HND - Higher National Diploma - and what pisses me off is that he never 'swats' before an exam etc wheras I had to keep my nose in books for 3 months before mine - now I am not saying he is the normal product of Wales, in fact I do not personally know anyone else like him but I am sure that people like him are not the 'run of the mill' in fWance either

I'll have to go with my compatriots opinion on this one. The authors didn't know much about France, really. Grandes Ecoles have the same principles that good private US universities: you have to pay & you have to be in the 10% best students to join the house. HEC, Polytechinque, etc are the best in France. Even in terms of public unies, Paris VI really isn't that good.

Anyway, I think unies should be compared by field. You cannot really compare Harvard to Columbia as they have different specialities.

you have to pay & you have to be in the 10% best students to join the house

Thanks for your honesty, but...

You don't have to pay to go to Polytechnique, Normale or Saint-Cyr. On the contrary, you're paid.
HEC is a little bit pricy (8000 €/year plus 7000 € to pay for a compulsory room on the campus).
I think there are less than 10% of the students in the Grandes Ecoles.

RC

PS : if you want my opinion, this Grandes Ecoles system is another french failure. While most students pay almost nothing to get a mediocre teaching, a minority pay a lot to get a better one (and eventually go to the States to make money), and a very little minority is paid to get the very best.
Well the majorityof taxpayers pay the studies of students who often come from upper classes or upper middle classes.

The only good way to rank Universitis and Grands Ecoles, would be the annual incomes of their graduateds

I suggest you read the methodology these Chinese used in the ranking. It is as about research being done at universities as it is about teaching. If you wonna compare incomes, any law or medical school would beat the shit out of any engineering schoold. And yet you see Caltech at teh top of the list

if you want my opinion, this Grandes Ecoles system is another french failure. While most students pay almost nothing to get a mediocre teaching, a minority pay a lot to get a better one (and eventually go to the States to make money), and a very little minority is paid to get the very best.
Well the majorityof taxpayers pay the studies of students who often come from upper classes or upper middle classes

Cut the shit, what is the percentage of students who actually refuse to join a paying grandes écoles because they can't afford it? 0,01%? I'mnot saying 7500€/yr is nothing, just that people can always find the meansto pay it (savings, loans, summer jobs and internships, etc)

What bothers me most is the mentality in France. Although there is the equality of "chances" principle, by having low cost studies, it's generally studetns from wealthy families who make better studies and succeed better profesionally speaking. The social mobility remains pratically unexistant contrary to the US. We still have the rotten mentality of "only the rich can succeed" and "i'm doomed to remain poor because my family is".
THAT'S what should be more bothering to you, as a teacher

RC :

if you want my opinion, this Grandes Ecoles system is another french failure. While most students pay almost nothing to get a mediocre teaching, a minority pay a lot to get a better one (and eventually go to the States to make money), and a very little minority is paid to get the very best.
Well the majorityof taxpayers pay the studies of students who often come from upper classes or upper middle classes

WU :

The social mobility remains pratically unexistant contrary to the US. We still have the rotten mentality of "only the rich can succeed" and "i'm doomed to remain poor because my family is".
THAT'S what should be more bothering to you, as a teacher

WU, it's never too late to improve your reading skills...

The list certainly seems targeted at graduate and post-graduate institutions (that's the rationale I've decided on after not seeing W&M or UVa on the list). Research schools are a different breed and I am not suprised that so few non-anglo Universities made the list. There are many schools that offer top notch undergrad programs, but have mediocre grad porgrams- and vice versa. Take Texas A&M- a decent, but not extraordinary undergrad program is coupled with a grad and post-grad program that leads the world in a few areas (agricultural science and related fields).
I have no doubt that France has some great schools, but I wonder how many of their schools are cutting edge reserach institutions? How many top notch researchers choose to go to the US or the UK to pursue their studies? I suspect the Chinese were interested in the kind of institutions that are involved in creating an advanced industrial society.
Well, that's my two cents.

One last thing- Virginia is for Lovers! (but apparently not Rocket Scientists!)

Cut the shit, what is the percentage of students who actually refuse to join a paying grandes écoles because they can't afford it? 0,01%? I'mnot saying 7500€/yr is nothing, just that people can always find the meansto pay it (savings, loans, summer jobs and internships, etc)

I think you didn't understand what I was about. I think it's unfair that the majority of the population has to pay for a bunch of schools where almost only upper classes children go. I mostly agree with your post. My son is trying to pass this HEC contest, and we have already decided to borrow the money to pay it, if he succeeds.

What bothers me most is the mentality in France. Although there is the equality of "chances" principle, by having low cost studies, it's generally studetns from wealthy families who make better studies and succeed better profesionally speaking. The social mobility remains pratically unexistant contrary to the US. We still have the rotten mentality of "only the rich can succeed" and "i'm doomed to remain poor because my family is".

That's exactly what I was saying. Anyway, half of nowadays french students work to pay their studies (thanks MacDo...). Many of the best working class children achieve short studies in a first time (a two years DUT or BTS), and try later to resume their studies.

THAT'S what should be more bothering to you, as a teacher

That's exactly what I bother about, as a teacher. Part of my job is to give ambition and self confidence to my students.

RC

now I am not saying he is the normal product of Wales, in fact I do not personally know anyone else like him but I am sure that people like him are not the 'run of the mill' in fWance either

Dewi, Welsh and proud of it! One Batchelor Science Degree with honors, one PhD, Two patents!

It's no fluke. If you look at inventions around the world, many of the good ones are uncannily invented by the celts! I'm referring mainly to Welsh and Scots. Although Irish have a good record too.

There's something about the celtic brain! Hmmmmmm!

Hmm...the engineering school Harvey Mudd isn't on the list.

I agree with RC, the list is...not quite right.

Harvey Mudd was the school brought about for the express purpose of "beating the Russians". It did, does, and will for a long time to come. Beating france in Education is like beating a quadrapeligic in fencing.

Any list which ranks Paris VI ahead of Polytechnique, Normale Sup, Centrale, Les Ponts, Les Mines, HEC, ESSEC, Arts et Métiers, Sciences Po, ESCP, Dauphine, Saint-Cyr and 50 other grandes écoles, is a joke.

You are a joke frog and so is your country.

Fuck France

Brit45,

I'm going to have to agree with you on the 'celtic' thing. The whole Scottish Enlightenment is still highly underated. In the US we had Scots like Andrew Carnegie and Alexander Graham Bell leading the way. I am not even remotely Celtic (Franco-Germano-Slavic)but I'll give props to the people who seem to have contributed more 'good ideas' per capita than any other group I can think of. I'll paint my face blue and dip my hair in white mud tonight as a tribute ;^)

but the swine never studies before exams thats what pisses me off - christ for my ONC I swatted like hell for three months - he's no need to - he took his MBA in fucking night school classes for about six months and one full day per week for the six weeks before the exam, some of the failures of the MBA were trainee accountants that were at it full time - I keep telling him I am jealous but he just laughs- fuck if I had a quarter of his grey matter I would be gobbing it off everywhere

U of M
19th Sons going there next year

This study ranks only on how many papers are published in each universitiies.

This is horseshit to me: because of the brain drain the US is doing to the rest of the world.

Then a good researcher does not necessarly do a good teacher, who will be able to instillate his knowledge into his students.

Neither does a good researcher do a good engineer...

Then most of scientific publications have to be made in English to be internationaly acknowledge, a language with which many french scientists are not very familiar with.

Then, the survey just shows a fact every sane person knows already of: with huge fundings, very strong bonds between corporations/universities, the US supremacy is not to be discussed.

Then, the survey just shows a fact every sane person knows already of: with huge fundings, very strong bonds between corporations/universities, the US supremacy is not to be discussed.

Doesn't that just prove the point? Our Universities are the best because...

<p>For the purposes of this question the "..." doesn't matter very much. For the reasons you state, we should have the best universities and we do. Though SuburbanCowboy made some good points as to why French universities were under-represented in this study.</p>

My Alma Mater, Indiana University is on BOTH the top 100 list AND number 6 on the top party school list!!!

Ha ha!! Take that!!


Actually at least half the big 10 schools seem to have made the list. Odd that Northwestern is rated so low. Also odd that Cal Tech doesn't rate close to MIT. Even more curious that the top rated engineering school in the country, Rose Hulman, doesn't even make the list....yet Purdue does. Go figure.

In any event, a few years after I graduated from IU another student from there went to the Olympics and probably got more medlas than the entire country of france -- Mark Spitz. If that's not enough, we have the famous Kinsey sex research center and home for wayward perverts featuring the worlds largest single collection of pornography!

Who cares, I went to a party school as well.....so I'm well rounded.... here, have another beer!

I don't think the US rankings are supreme at all. All I see is some continental europeans moaning.

Oxford and Cambridge will outdo any US University from time to time, likewise there are some great US universities that can also outdo everyone else.

Where's the rest of the European universities.

Typical. Fucking Britain has to bail you lot out, yet again!

That's exactly what I was saying.

Well, sorry but I had decaffeined coffee my mistake that day

Sergent Comments: 30, member since Sat Aug 13, 2005

On Thu Aug 25, 2005 05:27 PM


Fucking frogs killled Sorbonne which used to be a decent educational establishment. With your grand ecole, frog, you won;t find even a janitor job in USA.


A considerable number of my friends have got a job in your Silicon Valley with only a DUT (less than a degree).

Go figure




yep they need gargbage pickers there to so what your mexican

My Alma Mater, Indiana University is on BOTH the top 100 list AND number 6 on the top party school list!!!

. . . . Hehehehehe, my alma mater, the University of Wisconsin is #16 academically and THE #1 party school, they're the highest ranked Big Ten school and only the U of Chicago is a higher rated midwestern school and the only other communist university, UC-Berkeley, finished 11 spots higher. Imagine if they ever got serious about school at the ole UW!