Atfuckatic:

Are you that ashamed of Frankistan that you have to pretend you're part of a Trading Block?

I think Atlantic is ashamed of being part of a trading block. Intellectual elitists do not want to be part of trading blocks. They want to be member of a fuzzy feel-good international cultural union that puts political power at the service of a benign bureaucracy that has been educated and appointed to decide for the masses.

Pretending the EU is more than a trading block is Atlantic's last straw in his denial of the rejection of the EU constitution.

When a Kraut fucks a Frog in the ass...


First of all, I never used, and will never use, the word "Kraut".

I'm glad that, for people who really count, the world is not made of Krauts, Frogs, Yanks, Roastbeefs...

This stupid grandstanding of course proves me wrong, does it not? LOL

Secondly, how do you know? Bush and Cheney are evil, I am sure they use this words: let's punish Frogs and forgive Krauts! And a lot depends on them, you can't deny it.

AS usually for French it is "what I say,not what I do" that's important. You never tire of providing valid reasons for FF existence.

Pretending the EU is more than a trading block is Atlantic's last straw in his denial of the rejection of the EU constitution

It is weird the lengths that he'll go to. It's delusional.

I think Atlantic is ashamed of being part of a trading block.

Yeah, well you presume too much and think wrong, as usual.

I'm not ashamed that the EU is a trading block, maybe the ONLY real trading block in the world.
Never saw another trade organization representing its members at the WTO and act as a "block"...

Just saying it's MUCH MORE than that.

Pretending the EU is more than a trading block is Atlantic's last straw in his denial of the rejection of the EU constitution.

So many inaccuracies in a single sentence...
Are you taking lessons from Jerry?

- Pretending the EU is more than a trading block:

I don't "pretend" the EU is more than a trading block, it IS much more than a trading block.
You've read the EU Constitution proposition, I suppose you read the treaties of Rome, Maastricht and Nice too?
Then you know it.

United in diversity

The European Union (EU) is a family of democratic European countries, committed to working together for peace and prosperity. It is not a State intended to replace existing States, nor is it just an organisation for international cooperation.

The EU is, in fact, unique. Its member states have set up common institutions to which they delegate some of their sovereignty so that decisions on specific matters of joint interest can be made democratically at European level.

europa.eu.int . . .

An EU Olympic team would really be anecdotal compared to the sovereignty the EU member States have already given up to the EU.

- Atlantic's last straw

Last?

I think I had the exact same positions towards the EU since much before I joined ff.com.
I posted about the same thread than this one for the Athens games.
My very first post on ff.com was a pledge to increased EU/US co-operation, and not as "trading blocks".

- in his denial

I don't deny anything.
I think I have faced last year's EU constitution's draft rejection with objectivity.
You haven't.

- the rejection of the EU constitution

Correction: the rejection of THIS constitution.

Yes the EU is democratical, and when we are asked a question about it, we can say no.

This was not the rejection of the principle of a constitution, it was a rejection of this specific text.
This was even less a rejection of the EU altogether.

I always said, even long before the vote when the polls were giving the YES winning with a considerable margin, that this Constitution was a SMALL step forward.

Not making this small step forward didn't make us make a big step backward.

What's a "trading block" for you, and how many of them do that?

What does the European Union do?

Fewer frontiers, more opportunities

You can travel across most of the EU without carrying a passport and without being stopped for checks at the borders.

You can shop in another country where goods are cheaper without paying any additional taxes so long as what you buy is for your own use. The single currency, the euro, allows shoppers to compare prices directly in the 12 countries that use it. As a result, manufacturers and retailers have taken steps to cut unjustifiably high prices. Travel for shopping, leisure or business from one euro country to another is cheaper because no money needs to be changed and no commission paid.

Competition introduced by the EU’s frontier-free single market has driven quality up and prices down. Phone calls, internet access and air travel have all become cheaper. Households can increasingly choose the best bargain among a range of suppliers of electricity and gas.

EU citizens can live, work, study and retire in another EU country if they so wish. These rights are gradually being extended to citizens from the 10 countries that joined the EU in 2004.



A greener Europe


People in Europe are very environmentally conscious. Consequently, the EU is spearheading world efforts to preserve the environment and promote sustainable development. It has taken the lead in implementing the Kyoto protocol to reduce emissions of the "greenhouse gases" blamed for global warming and climate change. As part of its effort, the EU is introducing in 2005 an innovative "emission trading scheme", which allows manufacturing companies to buy and sell a limited number of pollution permits.

As pollution knows no borders, EU member states have taken joint action in many areas to protect the environment. Not surprising then that Europe’s rivers and beaches are cleaner, vehicles pollute less, and there are strict rules for waste disposal. For example, dangerous waste from Europe can no longer be dumped in poor countries as was previously the case.

The EU wants transport, industry, agriculture, energy and tourism to be organised in such a way that they can be developed without destroying our natural resources — in short, "sustainable development" that will allow our economies to grow and provide for our population into the future.


Going abroad to learn


Nearly 2 million young people have already taken advantage of EU programmes to pursue their studies and personal development in another European country. As a result, the EU schemes for educational exchange and trans-border partnerships such as Erasmus, Leonardo, and Socrates are well-known names.

The EU does not decide what you learn in school, but it does work to ensure that your educational and professional qualifications are properly recognised in other EU countries.



Euros in your pocket


The euro (€), is probably the EU’s most tangible achievement. It is the single currency, shared by 12 countries, representing two thirds of the EU population. This number will rise as the new member countries adopt the euro, once their economies are ready.

All euro notes and coins can be used in all countries where the euro is accepted. Each note is the same, while the coins have a common design on one side and a national emblem of one member state on the other side.


Jobs and prosperity

European Union leaders have pledged to make the EU the world’s most dynamic knowledge-based society with a competitive economy and a skilled workforce.

That is why the EU is working to ensure that people have high-speed Internet access at school, at home and in the workplace. It is urging business and governments to make greater use of the internet so as to give better service. Another priority is to train workers in information technology skills and to keep people learning all their lives.

One third of the EU’s €100-billion-a-year budget is used to stimulate the economy and to create jobs in disadvantaged regions and to provide training for unemployed or underqualified people. People in regions of Ireland and Spain, for example, are much better off than they were 20 years ago.

The EU’s frontier-free single market and the creation of the single currency, the euro, have already generated billions of euro of wealth and created several million new jobs.

In addition, the EU is investing today in the jobs of tomorrow by funding high-tech research and development. EU leaders have pledged to increase this spending by more than 50% between 2001 and 2010.


Equal opportunities for all


Our society is fairer and more efficient when we do not discriminate against fellow human beings because of their nationality, gender, handicap, race or other factors. That is why EU law bans discrimination.

As long ago as the 1950s, the first EU treaties contained a clear-cut rule that men and women must have equal pay for equal work. This has given the EU a pioneering role in the fight for women’s rights, which are now an integral part of all EU policies.


Freedom, security and justice for all


We all want to live our lives in safety, protected from crime and terrorism. That is why the EU countries are working together to tackle international terrorism and to prevent the cross-border trafficking of drugs and people. They are adopting common rules on these crimes, and taking steps to ensure full cooperation between their police and customs officers, immigration services and law courts.

One of the practical steps has been to introduce a European arrest warrant, to make it easier to transfer suspected criminals from the country where they have been arrested to the country where they are wanted for questioning. EU countries are also coordinating their asylum policies and tightening controls at the EU’s external frontiers.

Since European Union citizens are free to live in any EU country, they must have equal access to justice wherever they are in the EU. Its member states have to ensure that they all apply EU laws in the same way and that court rulings in one country can be enforced in another. The EU has already done a lot to make it easier to solve cross-border legal problems about marriage, separation, divorce and the custody of children, as well as other kinds of civil disputes.


Exporting peace and stability


War between EU countries is now unthinkable, thanks to the unity that has been built up between them over the last 50 years. Given this success, the EU is now working to spread peace and stability beyond its borders.

The best way to prevent conflicts from arising in the first place is to create greater prosperity worldwide. As the world’s largest trading power, the EU is using its influence to establish fair rules for world trade. It wants to make sure that globalisation also benefits the poorest countries. The EU already provides more humanitarian assistance and development aid than anyone else.

The EU has sent military and police missions — for example to the Balkans, where EU peacekeepers have replaced NATO forces. This action is part of the defence aspect of the EU’s common foreign and security policy.

The Union is particularly interested in helping its neighbours to the east (from the former Soviet Union) and the south (the Mediterranean region) to achieve greater stability and prosperity.

The European Union shows how democratic countries can successfully pool economic and political resources in the common interest, serving as a possible model to be followed in other parts of the world.


A place in the Union


Since its foundation nearly 50 years ago, the EU has been a magnet, attracting a constant stream of new members, culminating in its historic and successful expansion from 15 to 25 in May 2004.

Any European country can join, provided it has a stable democracy that guarantees the rule of law, human rights and the protection of minorities. It must also have a functioning market economy and a civil service capable of applying EU laws.

Bulgaria and Romania are on track to become members in 2007. Entry negotiations are due to begin in 2005 with Turkey and Croatia.

Up to 10 years or more can pass between the time a country submits an application to join and its actual time of entry. Once a membership treaty is agreed, it must be ratified by the European Parliament and by the national parliaments of the candidate country and of all EU member states.

Embracing a continent


EU members and when they joined.

1952 Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands

1973 Denmark, Ireland, United Kingdom

1981 Greece

1986 Portugal, Spain

1995 Austria, Finland, Sweden

2004 Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia

The EU symbols


The European flag
The 12 stars in a circle symbolise the ideals of perfection, completeness and unity.

The European anthem
The melody comes from the Ninth Symphony by Beethoven. When this tune is used as the European anthem, it has no words.
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and think wrong

THOUGHT POLICE ALERT!!!!!

Fuck you, atlunatic. Your EU is dead, the EU isn't an olympic team, and your entire train of thought is "borrowed" (poorly) from a man who's been dead for a long time, Karl Marx.

Fuck you, fuck france, fuck the Euro (the only change in the "EU"), and your future is fucked.

Enjoy, really, you deserve the future those like you have forged for you.

Yes the EU is democratical, and when we are asked a question about it, we can say no.

Poor Atlantic. If you ever understand the truth it will shatter your world.

Yes, it's democratical. They have heard you loud and clear and are being very patient with your incorrect answer.
Sort of. They told you what the right answer was, how much simpler could it be?
But you will be given another chance to answer correctly.
Your democratical dude in Brussels will make sure you get it right eventually.

THOUGHT POLICE ALERT!!!!!

Excuse me, but when Prescott presumes of what I think, I'm the only one qualified to say if he thinks right or wrong.

See how much I am ashamed of the trading block part of the EU:

EU wins WTO backing for sanctions on US over illegal tax breaks
www.fuckfrance.com . . .


WTO deal: "Europe made it happen"
www.fuckfrance.com . . .


WTO chief praises EU-U.S. trade efforts
www.fuckfrance.com . . .

The rest of your hysterical post says enough about how much the EU disturbs and upsets you...
A "trading block" wouldn't do that...

But you will be given another chance to answer correctly.

Never, ever, in France, the same question has been asked twice in referendums.
This EU Constitution approval will not make exception.

This EU Constitution is dead, but if one day, a text suitable for a majority of us is presented to our approval, we'll vote YES without asking your authorization.

When you consider the main motives for which it was rejected, there's not so much to change to it to reach a consensus.

Basically, what the electors rejected was precisely in the non-constitutional part of the text, articles already approved in the past in former treaties, and that are therefore still valid today even with a No victory...

What the hell does this have to do with an Olympic team anyway?
Do all participating countries have one?
What about Great Britain?

People in Europe are very environmentally conscious.

Then why aren't you meeting Kyoto targets and, by the admission of EU leaders themselves, haven't put a lot of effective effort into doing so?

For example, dangerous waste from Europe can no longer be dumped in poor countries as was previously the case.

Not because of the EU, but because the Supreme Court of India won't let you.

European Union leaders have pledged to make the EU the world’s most dynamic knowledge-based society with a competitive economy and a skilled workforce.

Goals and their achievements are distinctly different things. Even the EU recognizes that the much-touted Lisbon Agenda goal of being a more competitive economy than the USA by 2010 is not going to be achieved. In fact, you're just now achieving growth & productivity goals the USA achieved 30 years ago. Better luck next century.

That is why the EU is working to ensure that people have high-speed Internet access at school, at home and in the workplace.

Minitel?

It is urging business and governments to make greater use of the internet so as to give better service.

Is is also busy urging governments and international organizations to regulate its use and squelch freedom of speech, supposedly one of the "values" that Europeans share with America.

One third of the EU’s €100-billion-a-year budget is used to stimulate the economy and to create jobs in disadvantaged regions and to provide training for unemployed or underqualified people.

Most of the rest goes to subsidize uncompetitive and backward French agriculture.

In addition, the EU is investing today in the jobs of tomorrow by funding high-tech research and development. EU leaders have pledged to increase this spending by more than 50% between 2001 and 2010.

Repeatedly, even EU leaders have pointed out the failure of EU members to invest adequately in R&D and the extremely large gap between R&D investment in the USA and the EU.

Our society is fairer and more efficient when we do not discriminate against fellow human beings because of their nationality, gender, handicap, race or other factors.

Your list cleverly leaves out religion. If you don't discriminate, how come the repeated indications of increased anti-Semitic activity in France? Why are there constant signs of an increase in right-wing extremist activity? If you don't discriminate, what is the basis for the French ambivalence to Turkish entry into the EU?

We all want to live our lives in safety, protected from crime and terrorism.

I'm sure you WANT to do so. You've proven unable to effectively provide yourselves such protection.

Given this success, the EU is now working to spread peace and stability beyond its borders.

Oh really? I'd enjoy you telling us how the EU is doing THAT.

The best way to prevent conflicts from arising in the first place is to create greater prosperity worldwide. As the world’s largest trading power, the EU is using its influence to establish fair rules for world trade.

You just don't want to follow the rules that are established. The rules are for everyone else to follow, not you.

It wants to make sure that globalisation also benefits the poorest countries.

How about lowering your agricultural subsidies then?

The EU has sent military and police missions — for example to the Balkans, where EU peacekeepers have replaced NATO forces. This action is part of the defence aspect of the EU’s common foreign and security policy.

Besides the pettiness of the efforts most EU nations have made, there is no such thing as EU peacekeepers vs NATO forces. You are members of NATO. Your military equipment is part of NATO. Your so-called EU forces are completely and utterly dependent on NATO, meaning the USA.

serving as a possible model to be followed in other parts of the world.

"possible model" = "recipe for failure"

Some of your objections are perfectly valid even if largely exagerated, Vox.
Most of them confirm that what we need is MORE Europe, not less.
Never said the EU was perfect, the construction is still under progress.

However, throughout your post, I could have sworn you were speaking about a confederation of countries, not a trading block...

Atlantic your pic shows a German passport. The inscription "Europäische Gemeinschaft" describes only that Germany is a member of EU. The symbol on the passport is a German Eagle and not your 12 stars. We´ve only EU passports for pets

In the event of an passport extension I consult a German authority and not an EU office.

"Europäische Gemeinschaft"

On the latest model, it's "Europäische Union".
Like everywhere in the EU, in the member-state's language(s):

The symbol on the passport is a German Eagle and not your 12 stars.

You have the Eagle on Euro coins too.
Does that make it a Deutsche Mark?

In the event of an passport extension I consult a German authority and not an EU office.

And when you consult one of your Lander's authority, does that mean you are not a German citizen?

I thought you Germans had a better knowledge of Federalism...

The EU is not an Orwelian institution, it doesn't have centralized administrations to deal with citizens' everyday life.

[The EU] fosters cooperation among the peoples of Europe, promoting unity while preserving diversity and ensuring that decisions are taken as close as possible to the citizens.

europa.eu.int . . .

anyway, batigoal is perhaps anti EU .

it is his right . even me sometimes, i share the point of view of prescott .

sometimes,it looks like an enormous machine impossible to lead .


but i prefer the EU for pragmatic reasons !

anyway, batigoal is perhaps anti EU .

it is his right .

Absolutely!
But being anti-EU and denying its existence are 2 different things.

Besides, national levels politicians often use the EU as a scape-goat for their own failures.

It always amazed me that the most Euro-scepticals of the French citizens are the farmers...

anyway, batigoal is perhaps anti EU

Batigoal is not anti EU but Atlantics definition of "EU" and my EU definition are totally different. He thinks its a country, I think its a trade block. I´m a typical CDU/CSU voter and Atlantic is probably a typical socialist or social democrat.

He thinks its a country,

No, I think it's a unique type of Confederation.

I think its a trade block.

Well it's not ONLY a trade block.
You might wish it would be, but it's not.
And no-one serious at the CDU considers it as a trade block only.

You have the Eagle on Euro coins too.

It make no sense if we have ONE COUNTRY.

The Unites States of America has the US dollar. The images on the dollars are all the same in every state.

It exists NO "Unites States of Europe". 12 countries of the EU (25 members) have a conjointly currency but the coined money differs in every of the 12 countries.

THAT ARE THE FACTS

dupe

test

Atlantics definition of "EU" and my EU definition are totally different.

The thing is that it's not MY definition, but THE definition of the EU, as detailled on the EU's website itself, and in the International treaties that define the EU.

I´m a typical CDU/CSU voter

You sound more like an ignorant kid.

Your ignorance of EU's institutions and of the role of the CDU in making the EU something totally different than a trading block is appalling.

Go back to school, Batigoal!

You'll see that the EU political integration is a Christian Democrat idea, and that the EU's "funding fathers" were all of that European Christian Democrat family.

Atlantic is probably a typical socialist or social democrat.

I am a Social Democrat indeed; typical, I don't know.

Can I ask you where you are from in Germany?
Your ideological approach of things, your apparent refusal of political alternance, your ignorance of your country's history from 1950, your overestimation of NATO, your Prussian arrogance, make me think you might be a typical, politically immature, primarily anti-Socialist, native of the former GDR.

but the coined money differs in every of the 12 countries.

What about bank-notes?
I understand that, at your age, you use coins more often than bank notes...

The Unites States of America has the US dollar.

The images on the dollars are all the same in every state.

Good for them!
We are not emulating the US.
There motto is not "United in Diversity", is it?
Of course the EU's model is much more confederal than the US'.
We are not building Europe with the US as a model or rival.

And you are not completely right either, anyway...
If the EU doesn't emulate the US, the US does emulate the EU:

The 50 State Quarter Program

The 50 State Quarters Program is a 10-year initiative (1999 - 2008) of the United States Mint intended to commemorate each of the 50 United States. Under the program, States are honored with a new quarter design in the order they were admitted into the Union. Each State is represented with a historic or symbolic design unique to that State on the reverse side, while the front side of every quarter depicts a portrait of George Washington.

More than 21 billion State Quarters have been minted since 1999.

coins.about.com . . .

Here's a link for kids, you should be able to understand it:
www.usmint.gov . . .

I don't see the EU or any other trading block listed in the Olympic Medals table.

Why is that?

Can I ask you where you are from in Germany?
Your ideological approach of things, your apparent refusal of political alternance, your ignorance of your country's history from 1950, your overestimation of NATO, your Prussian arrogance, make me think you might be a typical, politically immature, primarily anti-Socialist, native of the former GDR. .... Go back to school Batigoal

No problem, you can.

Born in Hamburg
Birthday: 29.08.66
Hair: brown
Height: 1,82 cm
Shoe size: 42 means UK 8
Confession: jewish
Family status: single
Salary: more than 60K €(i know you love this key ) per a
Politics: conservative
Qualification: doctorate in chemistry

Any other question?

P.S. not everyone who has another opinion about the EU is an idiot Atlantic!