if there was a EU team,i think the competition would lose its charm .

Ok, but whats up with an additional "EU team". Apparently no-one (except Atlantic of course) is interested in. Italy, England, Germany, Poland, France, Sweden, Portugal, Holland, Spain etc are full of excellent footballers who are not in their national teams. It would be easy (technical) to establish an EU team. No-one wants it. Uncle Meat ist right or?

that is true . perhaps because it would be a "low" eu team .

a pseudo eu team . it is too early and people are perhaps not interrested .

anyway,wait atlantic's answer .

Hey Atlunatic we are the host of a great sport event this summer and I´m sorry for you I can´t find an EU team at this competition.

Batigoal, tell me...
You don't intend to loop back to all the arguments that have already been posted and that I already debunked or minimized one by one, I hope?

I can't find the UK team in your list!

The FIFA World Cup and the UEFA European Cup are Nations competitions, unlike the Olympics.

Today, Great Britain sends (or tries to send) separate English, Scottish and Welsh teams. Same for Rugby.

Like GB today, The EU could send a united team to the Olympics and World Championships, and still send separate squads at soccer, rugby, handball, basketball competitions.

International sport institutions are more flexible than what the bashers think.

www.fuckfrance.com . . .

Ok, but whats up with an additional "EU team".

This is a very interesting suggestion.
I like the idea.

Impossible under present FIFA rules as one player, once he has played for a nation cannot switch to another one even if he bears double-nationality. (i.e. Drogba, for instance)
But rules can be changed.

But the Olympics are not a competition of Nations, this is why other entities than "nations", or "countries" already sent unified teams.
The world cup IS a competition of nations, and the EU is not, and doesn't intend to become a "nation".

it is too early and people are perhaps not interrested

I agree with you.

anyway,wait atlantic's answer .

Lets see what happens

just above you

Again, Atlantic, I accept your premise that the EU is a "country" and thus something one member state of the EU does is a reflection on the EU as a whole.

And thus, again, I'd like to thank you, on behalf of myself and other Americans, for the EU's invasion of Iraq in 2003 and continued occupation of Iraq, at our side After all, Poland, the UK, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Italy have troops there and they are part of the EU, aren't they? So it counts as a EU operation, just like your Olympics tally.

I'd like to thank the EU for its courageous stand on the Iraq matter and for not allowing themselves to be detered by the UN Charter and international law by joining us in this illegal war, the overthrow of a sovereign nation, the killing of countless innocent women and children, and for putting panties on terrorist's heads.

Now, I don't agree with the above assessment of our actions in Iraq, however, it is YOUR stated position. And since it is also your stated position that the achievements of one member of the EU reflect on them all, shouldn't that include the actions of EU members vis-a-vis Iraq?

Bonne nuit, my fellow warmongering imperialist!

Batigoal, take the example of the Ryder Cup, and feel the "wind of change" on your conservative shoulders:

Common currency? New flag? Nope. Try golf to unify Europe.

As America's golf stars take on the best from across the Atlantic this weekend in the Ryder Cup, get ready for one of the rarest sights in sport: Team Europe.

The biennial clash, which starts Friday at the Oakland Hills Country Club in Michigan offers something that no other major sporting tournament does - a single, unified lineup of players competing under a European banner.



For this one event, old animosities evaporate. Frenchmen cheer on Spaniards, Nordic rivals bury the hatchet, and Welsh and Irish surprise themselves by rooting for the English.

"It's bizarre, really," says Fred Aylett, a sports-bar manager in Bristol, England, who knows more than most about the proclivities and passions of the average sports fan.

"Everyone gets behind the European players and you've got all these Englishmen who are used to mouthing off about the Germans and French, and suddenly they're shouting their names" in support, says Mr. Aylett.



The fact that golf's Ryder Cup remains an exception highlights a strange quirk about European integration over the past 60 years. The Continent may have a common currency, a parliament, a single market, and a pan-European court. But sports seems to be more deeply woven in the fabric of local and national identities - and old rivalries still get in the way.

In soccer, rugby, ice hockey, even volleyball, Europeans would rather settle old scores by battling against one another than unify and take on other world powers.

So unwelcome is the general idea of Team Europe that when European Commission president Romano Prodi suggested recently that Olympians compete at the 2008 Games in Beijing under the blue and gold EU standard, it created a shudder across the Continent.

No matter that Europeans collectively won more medals than any other country at the recent Athens Olympics. The notion of a single European team was alien to a people who mostly put local affiliation first, national affinities second, and European sensibilities a distant third.

"There is no such thing as a European sporting identity," says Antonio Missiroli, a research fellow at the EU Institute for Security Studies who has written papers about the issue. "It is a tradition of Europe to have competition by national teams first ... and also to have competition for [local] clubs," he says.

Mr. Prodi's spokesman, Reijo Kemppinen, was at a loss to explain why Europe doesn't team up more often. "I wish I knew the answer," he says. "What the president was suggesting is - why not portray the flag of the EU at the Olympics alongside the national flags as a kind of symbolic expression of European unity?"

The unity around the Ryder Cup works because it puts great rivals on opposing teams, and creates an underdog (traditionally Europe, although it has won three of the last four contests) to take on the world's best (traditionally America).

In other sports, creating Team Europe simply would not generate the same dynamic. "In ice hockey, for example, the Czechs prefer to beat the Germans, and the Finns want to overcome the Swedes, rather than play against the Americans," says Daniel Keohane of the Centre for European Reform, a think tank here. "In volleyball, again, there is more rivalry among the Europeans than between Europe and America."

Mr. Missiroli notes that in soccer, most European teams (particularly the Dutch) want to beat the Germans, not play on the same team with them. In Britain, they can't even pull together a single British team because of the lingering antagonism between the English and the Welsh, Irish, and Scottish. "Even if England is playing Argentina or Germany, countries they've been at war with, Welsh and Scots fans will still support the team playing [against] England," says Mr. Keohane.

As for rugby, Keohane says that during a recent World Cup he noticed that some Europeans got behind the French when they were playing Australia. "But even then there was a girl from Luxembourg who couldn't stand the idea of the French winning."

In recent years, Europeans have become more used to the idea of supporting players from rival nations, as local clubs, particularly in soccer and rugby, take on a multinational look, buying well-known foreign talent to enhance success. Some English soccer clubs are now flush with foreign stars, bringing a cosmopolitan lilt to the chants from the stands.

But few attribute this to a stronger affinity with a European sporting identity. Most soccer fans would still rather beat a local rival than win Europe's premier club tournament, the Champions' League. "I'm not sure that these foreign imports have made us that much more European," says Aylett. "When England draws big European rivals in World Cups, all the German-bashing and French-bashing starts up again."

And few see the Ryder Cup Team Europe as a template for other sports. After all, continental Europeans only joined this competition in the past 20 years. Before that, when golf was still a curiosity in mainland Europe, the Americans used to play just the British, and subsequently the British and Irish.

A bigger question is whether this glaring lack of European sporting unity hints at deep-seated problems with European integration? After all, the history of the EU has been punctuated by the sometimes intractable problem of reconciling national, even tribal, urges with pan-European initiatives. Keohane says that, on the contrary, the sporting scene is a microcosm of what is good about Europe.

"It's because we're all different that makes us European," he says. "It's not about taking away identities but allowing them to coexist peacefully. That is what Europe is about."

www.csmonitor.com . . .

Well, many people including me, and Prodi, see the Ryder Cup Team Europe as a template for other sports.
Others like you or the author of this article don't.
But who, 20 years ago, could have predicted a Europeaan team at the Ryder cup?

Time will tell who's right...

The FIFA World Cup and the UEFA European Cup are Nations competitions, unlike the Olympics.

Today, Great Britain sends (or tries to send) separate English, Scottish and Welsh teams. Same for Rugby.

Like GB today, The EU could send a united team to the Olympics and World Championships, and still send separate squads at soccer, rugby, handball, basketball competitions.

International sport institutions are more flexible than what the bashers think.

I knew your post, but I don´t agree. Its bollocks in my eyes.

You interpret it at your leisure! You are interested in the French football and Rugby team, so its a national sport. We have a word in German for it: "Opportunist", perhaps its the same in French.

My proposal was an ADDITINAL EU-TEAM at the Fifa WC 2006, but no-one is interested in an EU-TEAM not the media, not the people and of course not the supporters. Mr Uncle Meat and Mr Simplefrench are right and your arguing in a circle!

Italy fans want Squadra Azzuri
French Supporters Le Bleu
Holland fans Oranje Boven

and in Rugby Welsh fans the Dragons,English fans the White Rose and French fans Le Tricolores (not bad for an American football fan who has no clue about Rugby )

I'd like to thank you, on behalf of myself and other Americans, for the EU's invasion of Iraq in 2003

A common foreign policy is yet another, and much more important, framework.

A different issue, though.
When South and North Korea send a unified team, they don't synchronize their foreign policies, do they?
However, if a foreign common policy had existed in 2003, no European troops would have been to Iraq, as the European Parliament voted against it.
Then again, if there were not a democratic deficit in Britain, Italy and Spain, they could not have sent troops either, as a crushing majority of their population was opposed to it...

Personally, in the eventuality of a common foreign policy, if the EU had decided to send troops to Iraq, I would have accepted the decision.
Did all Americans back the war? Were all French or Germans opposed to it?
No!

Sometimes France takes decisions that I don't agree with and that I still have to accept. I would understand the same situation with Europe.
Actually, so far, when France and the EU oppose on some issues, I happened to be more often on the European side.
(recently: Mittal/Arcelor, reduced VAT on restauration services, CAP reform and UK rebate...)

@Atlantic
Ok I partly agree with you in case of the Ryders Cup but I think the reason is every single Nation in Europe can´t compete in Golf with the US, so they build a United European team.

@Vox

I'd like to thank the EU for its courageous stand on the Iraq matter and for not allowing themselves to be detered by the UN Charter and international law by joining us in this illegal war, the overthrow of a sovereign nation, the killing of countless innocent women and children, and for putting panties on terrorist's heads.

That has nothing to do with the topic. Please, don´t mix sport and politics

French fans Le Tricolores (not bad an American football fan who has no clue about Rugby )

We don't call them the "Tricolores" but "Les Bleus".

You learned many things in this thread, you crazy scientist, didn't you?

You interpret it at your leisure!

Absolutely not.
It's the UEFA and other confederations, and the FIFA who call those competitions "Nations" competitions as opposed to clubs competitions.

However, if a foreign common policy had existed in 2003, no European troops would have been to Iraq, as the European Parliament voted against it.

I downloaded a PDF file of the EU constitution a year or so ago and have scanned it, but since it is an incredible mass of verbiage, I can't possibly remember it all.

Who would, should the constitution be adopted, make these decisions on a "common foreign policy"? Would it not be based on a consensus between the heads of state, not the EU Parliament? I'm asking, I don't know. If, however, it was based on national votes, it might not have turned out as you thought. As noted, we have several members of the EU (and some candidate members) who are real allies of the US and who joined us in the war, or verbally supported us. And a public vote against supporting the USA in a matter that she considered a matter of serious national interest would be a public attack, of sorts. Nations might hesitate to vote against us, or would abstain, if relations with the USA were seen as being seriously threatened.

On a related issue, there are quite a number of fellow Europeans serving in Iraq or whom have served. I realize you are opposed to the war, but do you support those who serve there?

Opportunist", perhaps its the same in French.

yes because it is french --->opportuniste in french .

But who, 20 years ago, could have predicted a Europeaan team at the Ryder cup?

The first European team participated in the Ryder cup in 1979, 26 years ago; 20 years ago it would hardly have been a "prediction".

I went quickly through this thread; Atlantic, if your goal is to make a fool of yourself you are doing a good job.

At first I thought you were on a "fishing expedition", using the same old and unoriginal troll subject that you know will attract a lot of reactions. But now I am starting to think you are serious, a sad thought.

"We don't call them the "Tricolores" but "Les Bleus"

sorry atlantic but batigoal is right, we say sometimes "les tricolores "


not easy to know that . if he asked me the name of the german team,
i would say "the Manshaft" or something like that . but i have no idea of the orthography

That has nothing to do with the topic. Please, don´t mix sport and politics

It was dealing with the premise of the thread, that the EU should be treated as a group for comparison of medals, something universally done for nation-states only. Except by Atlantic, of course.

Who would, should the constitution be adopted, make these decisions on a "common foreign policy"?

The Constitution proposition was only a SMALL step forward.
Should have it been adopted in 2003, I don't think this would have changed anything as far as Iraq is concerned.

On a related issue, there are quite a number of fellow Europeans serving in Iraq or whom have served. I realize you are opposed to the war, but do you support those who serve there?

I was opposed to STARTING the war at that point until all other options have been tried.

I support the troops there, of course, now that they are there.

Actually, once we failed to convince you to do this folly, I would have backed sending French troops there in the name of our long friendship and alliance.
I guess the outrageously hard words that have been said by your administration when we were just trying to explain our position and to help you made that impossible.

A K for the nice pic and the hint about Rugby (it shows me that I´ve No clue in Rugby )

But its doubtful from my perspective that I´ve learned something in this thread but that preincludes not that I´ve learned something in FF.com


I think we have our own confidence attitudes, but they are very different.

20 years ago it would hardly have been a "prediction".

Time goes by so quickly...

Make it 40, then!

we say sometimes "les tricolores "

In Football and Rugby?
Are you sure?

in football sure .

in rugby,i don't think .

It was dealing with the premise of the thread, that the EU should be treated as a group for comparison of medals,..

Sorry I can´t follow. I see no premise in terms of the Iraqi war in this thread.

There was no European decision about the Iraqi war. Every single European country made its own decision, some participate in the Coalition of the Willing, some were neutral and others were anti. Even those who were anti had different decisions. For instance France prohibited its airspace for all vehicles who participate in the Iraqi war.

But its doubtful from my perspective that I´ve learned something in this thread

You learned, at least, that you are, by law, a EU Citizen, about the CDU's contribution to European political integration, about what's writen on your passport's cover, about the EEA, about the US 50 States Quarters program...

Or did you already forget?

Every single European country made it own decision

And the Constitution would not have changed that.

not easy to know that . if he asked me the name of the german team,
i would say "the Manshaft" or something like that . but i have no idea of the orthography

We are very poor in Rugby, maybe the poorest on this planet

But we are the best in Football (this time US football), abroad the United States of course!
The NFL Europe is a German national championship with the exception of Amsterdam www.nfleurope.com

This is my team (along with the HSV of course)
www.hamburg-seadevils.de

The so-called small Seattle Seahawks


The German national football team (soccer) has the nickname "Elf" or "DFB-Elf")

Elf (German) = eleven (english)