As we know, 16 Chinese police was mowed down and attacked by Uighur terrorists recently. Right now the Govt only tighten the security. Tension is running high.
My thoughts exactly. China would suppress the information if they did, so all the people around the world can continue to believe china is full of rainbows and sunshine.
To the Chinese, saving face value is very important than saving their life. These Uighurs had already embarrassed the Chinese with the killings which exposed their weakness in security. So right now with the whole world turning attention on such a big occassion like Olympic, they will act cool. Just wait until Olympic is over. Uighurs better brace for the onslaught. Mark my words.
Do you know that many Asians not just Chinese look younger than their age? You questioned the Chinese age because they won the gold. What a sore loser! Get a life and move on.
My thoughts exactly. China would suppress the information if they did, so all the people around the world can continue to believe china is full of rainbows and sunshine.
Sunshine Lollipops and Rainbows - Lesley Gore
Sunshine, Lollipops And Rainbows
Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that's wonderful is what I feel when we're together,
Brighter than a lucky penny,
When you're near the rain cloud disappears, dear,
And I feel so fine just to know that you are mine.
My life is sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
That's how this refrain goes, so come on, join in everybody!
Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that's wonderful is sure to come your way
When you're in love to stay.
Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that's wonderful is what I feel when we're together,
Brighter than a lucky penny,
When you're near the rain cloud disappears, dear,
And I feel so fine just to know that you are mine.
My life is sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
That's how this refrain goes, so come on, join in everybody!
Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that's wonderful is sure to come your way
'Cause you're in love, you're in love,
And love is here to staaaaaay!
China Will Begin Massive Clean Up in Xinjang After Olympic Is Over?
Parsing the premise, we get:
"After the Olympics"
From the August 24th close of the games to the present, Sept. 2.
Only incidents from August 25th to Sept. 2 qualify.
"Will Begin"
The cleanup may go on for a year or two or three years, but we need some indication of force being applied to prove a beginning -- an example of force exactly like this:
Police in China shoot dead 6 suspects in Xinjiang
August 29th, nine Uighur suspects were found in a corn field carrying knives. Police were carrying submachine guns. Six of the nine Uighur suspects were shot and died on the spot. One of the three captured suspects later died in a hospital.
Seven dead in total this past Friday.
The term is a little nebulous, but it can be applied and given meaning when considering the following.
The total population of Uighurs, and nearly the entire population of Xinjiang is about 8.3 million. By Western standards, a rough equivalent to the population of L.A. and burbs or Paris and suburbs. If an incident in either of these two cities happened involving a house to house search by 500 troops, it would certainly be called a 'massive clean up'.
That is exactly what happened in Xinjiang after the summary execution of 7 of 9 suspects reported above. -
"Now there are 500 armed Chinese troops searching house to house in the area. It has been almost nine hours, but we still haven’t found anyone.”
"Clean ups" can also take forms other than simple summary executions of dissidents. They might assume the form of a crack down on the religion and the religious practices of the dissidents. We can see the Chinese intend to broaden the scope of the crack down by suppressing the religion which they view as the cause, Islam. The fasting season of Islam, starting tomorrow, will not be sanctioned, and will in fact be actively discouraged by the Chinese government, as we can see from this article.
The intent of the Chinese in the future, to indicate we have simply seen a beginning of a clean up in Xinjiang can be inferred from statements out of Beijing. The government itself rarely talks, but academics in Beijing oftentimes reveal the thinking of the inner circles of power, as in following example -
Chinese academics say Xinjiang is a region where a firm hand is required. Notes Yu Jianrong, a professor in the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences: "If the government wants to keep Xinjiang inside Chinese territory, they must take measures to crack down on separatists without any softness."
As there are natural gas and oil deposits in Xingjiang, it is doubtful Beijing will allow the territory to separate. Therefore we must conclude we will see continued crackdowns or clean up operations involving the Uighurs.
The requirements of this prediction seem to have been easily satisfied over the period August 25 until Sept. 2. Therefore the PRO response is correct.
Edited by VaeVictis (80758) on 2008-09-02 13:04:49
Here's my answer.
All of the articles Feathers mentioned point to violence directed AT Chinese authorities first (and subsequent arrest of Uighur suspects), not violence emanating from them.
From feather's link:
Police encountered nine suspects in a corn field near the city of Kashgar on Friday night, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. The suspects had knives and tried to resist arrest, putting up a "desperate struggle" and wounding one policeman. www.iht.com . . .
Is it a "massive clean-up" when police forces do their job and have to use their weapons against armed suspects? Only when we're talking about China, I guess.
From feather's link again:
In both Xinjiang and the nearby Tibetan regions, China has deployed thousands of security personnel in recent months to keep the peace and root out troublemakers. www.chicagotribune.com . . .
From another link:
Earlier this month, Chinese authorities said they had detained 82 suspected Islamic terrorists and separatists in the first half of the year across Xinjiang. www.iht.com . . .
Is it the "beginning" of a clean-up when similar (if not larger) police operations took place months earlier?
There's neither a "massive clean-up" nor the beginning of it right now in Xinjiang.
Two elements that should be enough to close this bet as CON.
Edit:
Additionally, feather's closing time for the bet is inappropriate with the data she has provided herself. Considering the links she provided as evidence of a massive clean-up happening in China the bet should be closed on August 31, 2008 and not Tue Sep 02, 2008 03:20 AM, that is, immediately after feathers bought her contracts, as if her own acknowledgment of these facts was to be the right time for the bet to close!
"All of the articles Feathers mentioned point to violence directed AT Chinese authorities first (and subsequent arrest of Uighur suspects), not violence emanating from them.
What´s is your logic to apologize for police brutality from the Chinese gov with a link from TEHRAN TIMES?
Maybe VAE VICTIS need to be left alone with a knife on the cornfields and wait for the Chinese gov come after him with machine guns and let the TEHRAN TIMES to report how fair they will treat him so he can understand the irrationality of his dispute argument -and link-, and we, FF people feel relieved that he died fairly because he was attacking the police.
BTW, that same link you mentioned doesn´t have any, ANY mention whatsoever of the incident I am submitting as a proof, which happened AFTER the Olympic games, a requisite of the prediction. Your link is a news with no date but it refers to AUG 8 as a future date, you can understand it was written BEFORE the Olympic games.
VaeVictis wrote:
From feather's link:
Police encountered nine suspects in a corn field near the city of Kashgar on Friday night, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. The suspects had knives and tried to resist arrest, putting up a "desperate struggle" and wounding one policeman. www.iht.com . . .
From the same link:
"But an Uighur exile group accused police Saturday of gunning down the suspects, members of the Muslim Uighur ethnic minority, after they surrendered.
Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the Germany-based World Uighur Congress, said armed police surrounded the corn field and asked the Uighur men through a loudspeaker to surrender themselves, promising to provide them with lawyers.
The suspects did not resist arrest, but police with submachine guns opened fire after they had surrendered, Raxit said in a statement Saturday, citing accounts by local Uighurs.
An official from the Xinjiang government speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media confirmed six suspects were shot dead. But he denied the men were killed after surrendering and called the allegations "nonsense."
Human rights groups say China has a history of using security threats in Xinjiang as an excuse for much broader crackdowns on human rights in the region."
VaeVictis wrote:
Is it a "massive clean-up" when police forces do their job and have to use their weapons against armed suspects? Only when we're talking about China, I guess.
It is a massive clean up (the begin of one) when you have 500 troops searching homes.
"We didn't expect to come under attack in that cornfield," Omerjan said. "They [the police] didn't carry any weapons. Now there are 500 armed Chinese troops searching house to house in the area. It has been almost nine hours, but we still haven't found anyone."
You have to understand this news are official statements from The People´s Republic of China. Not exactly a free word account about what is really happening. If they say 500, we can assume that at least 1000 Chinese troops are in the region terrorizing civilians.
In both Xinjiang and the nearby Tibetan regions, China has deployed thousands of security personnel in recent months to keep the peace and root out troublemakers. www.chicagotribune.com . . .
From another link:
Earlier this month, Chinese authorities said they had detained 82 suspected Islamic terrorists and separatists in the first half of the year across Xinjiang. www.iht.com . . .
Is it the "beginning" of a clean-up when similar (if not larger) police operations took place months earlier?
And your point is? Did you read the prediction requisites by any chance?
VaeVictis wrote:
There's neither a "massive clean-up" nor the beginning of it right now in Xinjiang.
Two elements that should be enough to close this bet as CON."
Your dispute doesn´t dispute anything. There was a begin of a massive clean up, and my links proved it without any doubt.
TRY AGAIN VAE VICTIS, I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT MON CHER
You are splitting hair feathers. There's tons of other links out there reporting previous cases of violence, Uighur terrorism and Chinese reprisals. The point is, it's not begun after the Olympics, it was already there, and it's hardly a "massive clean-up". After all, not even one human rights watch or leftist rag uses it against China. news.google.com . . .
Feathers cites events DURING the term of the prediction. VaeVictis cites NO events during the prediction term.
If nothing happened during the terms of the prediction - VaeVictis is right.
If something happened during the term of the prediction - Feathers is right.
Something happened!
In Chicago, when 7 civilians are gunned down, the Chicago Tribune calls it a Massacre.
Valentine's Day, Chicago
VaeVictis' source doesn't even mention the FACT that seven people were executed.
Edited by feathers (80773) on 2008-09-02 23:19:26
Edited by feathers (80773) on 2008-09-02 23:20:25
Edited by feathers (80773) on 2008-09-03 00:29:09
Edited by feathers (80773) on 2008-09-03 00:30:33
VaeVictis wrote:
You are splitting hair feathers. There's tons of other links out there reporting previous cases of violence, Uighur terrorism and Chinese reprisals. The point is, it's not begun after the Olympics, it was already there, and it's hardly a "massive clean-up". After all, not even one human rights watch or leftist rag uses it against China. news.google.com . . .
Well froggy,
I still don't understand what's your point. The prediction called for an event to happen after the Olympics up to today. And guess what, it happened.
CAN YOU PROVE THAT NO MASSACRE HAPPENED, UH? NO, BECAUSE IT HAPPENED.
Uighur armed with a deadly cane and security police in Kashgar, Xinjiang. The maniacal Uighur will soon be shot to death as he mounts a fierce struggle to liberate a cornfield. Nothing to see here, move along, business as usual.
Edited by VaeVictis (80758) on 2008-09-03 05:52:49
Wow. Big pictures. What do they prove, I don't know. Maybe the fact that you're all emotional and are reproducing the line of the do-gooder human right watches, the same ones that you don't want to believe when they criticize the US army in Iraq.
Oh, by the way, there's probably massive clean-ups happening there as well. I'm sure you wouldn't question the credibility of a newspaper using it to talk about american military operations.
So far your justification for saying that a "clean-up" is happening is that "there are 500 armed Chinese troops searching house to house in the area" and that a few Uighurs where killed because they resisted arrest with knives.
For more clarity, I would like to know what has or has not constituted for you a "clean-up" in recent history in any country.
Are US led invasions and pacifications of Iraq and Afghanistan massive clean-ups as well? They involve more than 500 soldiers patrolling large areas after all. I wonder if we could find any information about locals being killed on the spot by US forces there... Wait, it happens almost daily and you wouldn't call that clean-up, neither would I.
Then, one could argue that you have indeed tried your best to define the arrests or killings in Xinjiang as "clean-up", but you somehow managed to drop the word "massive".
Yet, it has a powerful meaning and it changes a lot the situation. "Massive clean-up" probably means a full-scale military operation with hundreds of victims or more, probably with a lot of innocent civilians, women and children in the death toll. Maybe even not far from an ethnic cleansing?
All there is for the moment is a few armed local men killed, totaling it seems less than the number of Chinese policemen or paramilitaries killed by Uighurs since August.
I'm confident everyone would recognize that the term "massive clean up" doesn't apply to this situation. Everyone that doesn't have any interest from a bet in saying otherwise, that goes without saying. Or leftist crying bitches, who get every chance they have to denounce State violence and authority. There's no leftist crying bitches here, right? Not even for money, I hope.
US_head_hunter:
I've already addressed your concern. There's hundreds of newspapers talking about Xinjiang, the Tehran Times is just one of them, they all say more or less the same thing, that the Chinese are bad people for being so tough on their peaceful Uighur muslim minority. I picked this one only because it mentioned 82 arrested in early august, a hint that the so called clean-up is happening since ages. Do you think they made that up and that we can't find any other mention of this arrest? If you do, I can hopefully find you dozens of articles from different newspapers, hoping that their origin would inspire you confidence. After all, we know that western newpapers never lie or truncate the truth.
For more clarity, I would like to know what has or has not constituted for you a "clean-up" in recent history in any country.
Are US led invasions and pacifications of Iraq and Afghanistan massive clean-ups as well? They involve more than 500 soldiers patrolling large areas after all. I wonder if we could find any information about locals being killed on the spot by US forces there... Wait, it happens almost daily and you wouldn't call that clean-up, neither would I.
Oh, I get it now. You aren't whining because you are such a poor loser, you are whining to make a political statement and irritate Americans who rightfully won. Apparently you don't care about right or wrong if it gets in your way, do you?
Release our prediction dollars! Drop your phony politically-motivated dispute.
Hahah Ibigmang, K tonite for your comment, I ran out of K today already.
Vae Victis,
Vae Victis wrote:
Wow. Big pictures. What do they prove, I don't know. Maybe the fact that you're all emotional and are reproducing the line of the do-gooder human right watches, the same ones that you don't want to believe when they criticize the US army in Iraq.
Oh, by the way, there's probably massive clean-ups happening there as well. I'm sure you wouldn't question the credibility of a newspaper using it to talk about American military operations.
1) Oh sure, that is because I am a woman, therefore I am not capable of making a reasonable argument but only being emotional right?
Please, compare my several links to your only ONE from TEHRAN TIMES.
2) What is the purpose of you to compare the war on terror with the Chinese government ethnic cleansing on the Xinjang region? Hello?
But, for the sake of your argument, yes, American are cleaning up Afghanistan and Irak of terrorists. Have you seen another terrorist attack? No, right? That's because yes, we are cleaning up out there FROM TERRORISTS.
Other than that, your comment about the war in Afghanistan - Irak IS NOT RELEVANT TO THIS PREDICTION. I am sorry if you cannot understand better.
3) About your argument about MASSIVE CLEAN UP, please read again the prediction:
About 'China Will Begin Massive Clean Up in Xinjang After Olympic Is Over?'
And for this prediction premise, I submitted enough proof.
Moderators, please, end this insanity. Enough with the irrationality of Vae Victis' rant.
3) About your argument about MASSIVE CLEAN UP, please read again the prediction:
About 'China Will Begin Massive Clean Up in Xinjang After Olympic Is Over?'
And for this prediction premise, I submitted enough proof.
Moderators, please, end this insanity. Enough with the irrationality of Vae Victis' rant.
Okay. I will only address this point because for the rest I have already answered extensively, especially the Tehran Times thingy...
I will use a little comparison to make things more obvious.
If you scratch a match in a forest, is it "proof" that a massive forest fire will occur?
If there's a bit of repression by the Chinese police forces (again, 6 Uighur civilian deaths for twice or thrice the same number of dead policemen is not very impressive...), is it "proof" that something ugly is going to happen?
That is what you are implying anyway, because you can't explain otherwise the "massive" bit.
