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FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 4)  en>fr fr>en
By Johnny_Ola Comments: 5081, member since Sat Apr 28, 2007
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:21 AM
WASHINGTON – Buyers, beware: President Barack Obama says his health care overhaul will lower premiums by double digits, but check the fine print. Premiums are likely to keep going up even if the health care bill passes, experts say. If cost controls work as advertised, annual increases would level off with time. But don't look for a rollback. Instead, the main reason premiums would be more affordable is that new government tax credits would help millions of people who can't afford the cost now. Listening to Obama pitch his plan, you might not realize that's how it works.

Even the AP is starting to smell Obama's bullshit.

WASHINGTON – Buyers, beware: President Barack Obama says his health care overhaul will lower premiums by double digits, but check the fine print.

Premiums are likely to keep going up even if the health care bill passes, experts say. If cost controls work as advertised, annual increases would level off with time. But don't look for a rollback. Instead, the main reason premiums would be more affordable is that new government tax credits would help millions of people who can't afford the cost now.

Listening to Obama pitch his plan, you might not realize that's how it works.

Visiting a Cleveland suburb this week, the president described how individuals and small businesses will be able to buy coverage in a new kind of health insurance marketplace, gaining the same strength in numbers that federal employees have.

"You'll be able to buy in, or a small business will be able to buy into this pool," Obama said. "And that will lower rates, it's estimated, by up to 14 to 20 percent over what you're currently getting. That's money out of pocket."

And that's not all.

Obama asked his audience for a show of hands from people with employer-provided coverage, what most Americans have.

"Your employer, it's estimated, would see premiums fall by as much as 3,000 percent," said the president, "which means they could give you a raise."

A White House press spokesman later said the president misspoke; he had meant to say annual premiums would drop by $3,000.
Doh!

It could be a long wait.

"There's no question premiums are still going to keep going up," said Larry Levitt of the Kaiser Family Foundation, a research clearinghouse on the health care system. "There are pieces of reform that will hopefully keep them from going up as fast. But it would be miraculous if premiums actually went down relative to where they are today."

The statistics Obama based his claims on come from two sources. In both cases, caveats got left out.

A report for the Business Roundtable, an association of big company CEOs, was the source for the claim that employers could save $3,000 per worker on health care costs, the White House said.

Issued in November, the report looked generally at proposals that Democrats were considering to curb health care costs, concluding they had the potential to significantly reduce future increases.

But the analysis didn't consider specific legislation, much less the final language being tweaked this week. It's unclear to what degree the bill that the House is expected to vote on within days would reduce costs for employers.

An analysis by the Congressional Budget Office of earlier Senate legislation suggested savings could be fairly modest.

It found that large employers would see premium savings of at most 3 percent in 2016, compared with what their costs would have been without the legislation. That would be more like a few hundred dollars instead of several thousand.

The claim that people buying coverage individually would save 14 percent to 20 percent comes from the same budget office report, prepared in November for Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind. But the presidential sound bite fails to convey the full picture.

The budget office concluded that premiums for people buying their own coverage would go up by an average of 10 percent to 13 percent, compared with the levels they'd reach without the legislation. That's mainly because policies in the individual insurance market would provide more comprehensive benefits than they do today.

For most households, those added costs would be more than offset by the tax credits provided under the bill, and they would pay significantly less than they have to now. However, the budget office estimated that about 4 in 10 customers shopping for an individual policy would not be eligible for tax credits — and would face higher premiums on average than without the legislation.

The premium reduction of 14 percent to 20 percent that Obama often cites would apply only to a portion of the people buying coverage on their own — those who want to keep the skimpier kinds of policies available today.

Their costs would go down because more young people would be joining the risk pool and because insurance company overhead costs would be lower in the more efficient system Obama wants to create.

The president usually alludes to that distinction in his health care stump speech, saying the savings would accrue to those people who continue to buy "comparable" coverage to what they have today.

But many of his listeners may not pick up on it.

"People are likely to not buy the same low-value policies they are buying now," said health economist Len Nichols of George Mason University. "If they did buy the same value plans ... the premium would be lower than it is now. This makes the White House statement true. But is it possibly misleading for some people? Sure."

29 Replies to FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan

re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 8)  en>fr fr>en
By idahoboy Comments: 4870, member since Sat Sep 16, 2006
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:24 AM
I cannot wait until these 20 to 25 year old, Obonga voting morons find out what is in store for them. They could have bought policies for $100.00. Now they will be forced to buy policies for hundreds of dollars. These cunts will find out there is no such thing as "free" health care.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 7)  en>fr fr>en
By jukinj3 Comments: 13187, member since Tue Apr 08, 2003
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:30 AM
Romney care in Massachusetts provided the highest premiums in the country, sent thousands of doctors out of the state or into retirement, and is now almost ten times over the initial cost to the state.

It. Does. Not. Work.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By canopus Comments: 113, member since Fri Apr 24, 2009
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:35 PM



mm It`s funny that nearly everyone else in the OECD (and elsewhere - Japan, Kuwait,UAE, S Korea, Israel, Singapore, Bahrain, Hong Kong) etc manages. We all get healthcare delivered to everyone at about 1/2 the price it costs in the US, and it`s better quality care. The US stands at number 37 in the world, and falling.

Strange really - is there some particular situation over there that will stop it working ?

the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average, and yet ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries without universal health coverage. Some analysts say an increasing number of U.S. businesses are less competitive globally because of ballooning healthcare costs...

The United States spent 16 percent of its GDP in 2008 on healthcare, higher than any other developed nation. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that number will rise to 25 percent by 2025 without changes to federal law (PDF).

www.cfr.org . . .

How can you possibly support this rubbishy system ?
The excess money you spend, goes on Insurance bureaucracy 31% !!
and profits to private providers and insurance.

Why do you see this as a good thing ?
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By canopus Comments: 113, member since Fri Apr 24, 2009
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:42 PM
sorry, in the map above:

Blue=single payer system universal care
Green= Universal coverage via other means
Grey=no universal cover (the US is keeping interesting company !)

PS Venezuela is on the way to universal coverage. :D
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 3)  en>fr fr>en
By PopsFrost Comments: 5502, member since Mon Jan 21, 2008
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:54 PM
Can of Puss wrote:

www.cfr.org . . .

Only an asshole would use the CFR as a source. Fuckin' leftist loon.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By faqufrance Comments: 4862, member since Wed Nov 17, 2004
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 01:04 PM
idahoboy wrote:

I cannot wait until these 20 to 25 year old, Obonga voting morons find out what is in store for them. They could have bought policies for $100.00. Now they will be forced to buy policies for hundreds of dollars. These cunts will find out there is no such thing as "free" health care.


That is the "Hope" and "Change" that will decimate the demorat party. If there wasn't so much at stake, I would enjoy these idiots walking off the cliff in unison, like a bunch of euro-lemmings.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 4)  en>fr fr>en
By faqufrance Comments: 4862, member since Wed Nov 17, 2004
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 01:08 PM
Ass filled with puss,

The US IS the inovator in heath care, case closed. The problem is we subsidize most of the pharma products for the world. We pay full cost, where as other countries negociate a better rate. There is a lot that can be done to reduce our costs.

But, when push comes to shove and the rich get seriously ill, they go to the USA for help.. FACT.

Japan has an intresting system. The docs dont get paid shit to do their work. The same for Germany. The typical surgeon, with a decade of experience, just a few years ago in Germany, was making 40K USD a year. Sorry, we dont work for that cheap, yet.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By lboru Comments: 1211, member since Tue Mar 18, 2003
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 03:41 PM
the other thing that is bothering me is that obama brings out this woman that had to give up her healthcare to keep her house and she is worried about paying for or even getting her cancer treatments...

if she had to wait for obamacare she would be DEAD because it doesn't start until 2014. obama care won't do shit for her.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Johnny_Ola Comments: 5081, member since Sat Apr 28, 2007
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 05:17 PM
canopus wrote:

mm It`s funny that nearly everyone else in the OECD (and elsewhere - Japan, Kuwait,UAE, S Korea, Israel, Singapore, Bahrain, Hong Kong) etc manages. We all get healthcare delivered to everyone at about 1/2 the price it costs in the US, and it`s better quality care. The US stands at number 37 in the world, and falling.

Strange really - is there some particular situation over there that will stop it working ?

the United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average, and yet ranks with Turkey and Mexico as the only OECD countries without universal health coverage. Some analysts say an increasing number of U.S. businesses are less competitive globally because of ballooning healthcare costs...

The United States spent 16 percent of its GDP in 2008 on healthcare, higher than any other developed nation. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that number will rise to 25 percent by 2025 without changes to federal law (PDF).

www.cfr.org . . .

How can you possibly support this rubbishy system ?
The excess money you spend, goes on Insurance bureaucracy 31% !!
and profits to private providers and insurance.

Why do you see this as a good thing ?


American healthcare is excellent for those with coverage. It is just too expensive. Only in the past 10 years or so has this been an issue.

Do you really believe that A) Government will have LESS bureaucracy than a private company? and B) that 31% of health care expenditures go into private insurance/providers coffers?

I will tell you one big problem we have in the US that Europe does not have so much a problem with is our lawyers. Health care could be cut by a sizable amount if we had serious tort reform tomorrow. Insurance premiums for doctors would plummet and defensive medicine would plummet. Of course, both parties--especially the democrats--are too afraid of the lawyer lobby to do anything. Hell, half the senators ARE lawyers!

You also don't have to contend with tens of millions of illegal aliens to pay for. Another thing our government won't do a damned thing about.

Like I said, our healthcare system was the best in the world back in the 80s and 90s. It was an afterthought as far as being an expense. Most employers gave it away 100% for free. We need to look into what has changed in recent years and correct that.

I DO NOT WANT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! Last time I checked, our senators weren't flying to Canada for care they couldn't get in this country.

And please, no .org bullshit sites if you want to reference something.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By G3S3B Comments: 29124, member since Sun Oct 31, 2004
On Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:22 PM



And with my Peace Prize money, yes, I bought me a colored guy. You guys were right...this is awesome.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By canopus Comments: 113, member since Fri Apr 24, 2009
On Thu Mar 18, 2010 05:39 AM



PopsFrost wrote:

Can of Puss wrote:

www.cfr.org . . .

Only an asshole would use the CFR as a source. Fuckin' leftist loon.


Haha you`re like rats looking for a bolthole. The information is freely available from any legitimate health, economics or human rights source. I simply select the clearest.

You are being taken to the cleaners by the private medicine business - and rednecks like you are helping them to do it.

They must laugh their way around their exclusive, private golf-courses; oh and yachts are in, I hear !

You poor suckers :C

NHE=National Health Expenditure.
# NHE grew 4.4% to $2.3 trillion in 2008, or $7,681 per person, and accounted for 16.2% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
# Medicare spending grew 8.6% to $469.2 billion in 2008, or 20 percent of total NHE.
# Medicaid spending grew 4.7% to $344.3 billion in 2008, or 15 percent of total NHE.
# Private spending grew 2.6% to $1.2 trillion in 2008, or 53 percent of total NHE.


www.cms.hhs.gov . . .

Spending on doctors, hospitals, drugs, and the like now consumes more than one of every six dollars we earn. The financial burden has damaged the global competitiveness of American businesses and bankrupted millions of families, even those with insurance. It’s also devouring our government.


Read more: www.newyorker.com . . .

It`s nothing new in a 1994 study the NEJM found private `for profit` hospitals had significantly higher costs/admin costs than either private `not for profit` or public, which was far cheaper.
Admin costs in `for profit` hospitals ranged from 34% up to 44% for psychiatric care. Simply mind-boggling.
content.nejm.org . . .
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By MichaelE Comments: 9620, member since Sat May 14, 2005
On Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:44 PM
Timmah!

Image hotlink - 'http://www.st-owners.com/forums/customavatars/avatar2656_2.gif'
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By MadRusski Comments: 34920, member since Mon Aug 16, 2004
On Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:59 PM
WASHINGTON – Buyers, beware: President Barack Obama says his health care overhaul will lower premiums by double digits, but check the fine print.


That's their claim to fame?! Remember where Feathers was complaining that their family had to pay $1200 in premiums or something like that? What's good will the $99 - even if I take their words for face value and be most optimistic! - reduction do?!
And that at the tune of the Trillion dollars and creation of 10s of 1000s new Gubmint bureaucrats and 10s of 100s new insurance Cos bureaucrats?! WTF?! No wonder they are not even trying to sell it but trying to push it behind the closed doors
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 2)  en>fr fr>en
By chevy Comments: 4746, member since Tue Nov 16, 2004
On Thu Mar 18, 2010 01:36 PM
I love it when the Euros type a bunch of crap they find on the Internet. They just don't have a clue about what is happening here or in Europe because france is starting to get away from the single payer system and so is Canada.

Tell me again why 75 million dollars worth of medication was stolen, because generics dont work as good as the real thing and france needs 'em.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By canopus Comments: 113, member since Fri Apr 24, 2009
On Fri Mar 19, 2010 03:57 AM



chevy wrote:

I love it when the Euros type a bunch of crap they find on the Internet. They just don't have a clue about what is happening here or in Europe because france is starting to get away from the single payer system and so is Canada.

Tell me again why 75 million dollars worth of medication was stolen, because generics dont work as good as the real thing and france needs 'em.


Is the problem that you people cannot understand simple facts and figures ?
Or is it that more that you are so lost in anger and hatred that you would see your country pushed into bankruptcy, rather than think of change ?

Health care is a huge expense for all modern nations; of course there are endless discussion, ideas and small changes being made - but that doesn`t mean that we are abandoning the idea of universal cover. Quite the reverse - it`s more about how to get better care to more people without breaking the bank.

The US cannot afford it`s massive military and inefficient, expensive health system. Denigrating countries which have done better than you in healthcare, will not help solve the US`s problems.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By MichaelE Comments: 9620, member since Sat May 14, 2005
On Fri Mar 19, 2010 09:08 AM
Just the usual bullshit. America spends barely more than 4% of GDP on Defense.....a considerably lower percentage than it had spent in the 50s, 60s, 70s 80s etc yet the only thing the socialists can focus on is Defense.

America neither wants nor can afford socialized medicine. Obviously for those who are not American citizens, America's budget priorities are none of their fucking business.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By Johnny_Ola Comments: 5081, member since Sat Apr 28, 2007
On Fri Mar 19, 2010 09:26 AM
canopus wrote:

Is the problem that you people cannot understand simple facts and figures ?
Or is it that more that you are so lost in anger and hatred that you would see your country pushed into bankruptcy, rather than think of change ?

Health care is a huge expense for all modern nations; of course there are endless discussion, ideas and small changes being made - but that doesn`t mean that we are abandoning the idea of universal cover. Quite the reverse - it`s more about how to get better care to more people without breaking the bank.

The US cannot afford it`s massive military and inefficient, expensive health system. Denigrating countries which have done better than you in healthcare, will not help solve the US`s problems.


Thank you for the unsourced graphs (more .org bullshit no doubt). What is with the theoretically low and high range for US while others are averaged? Did you know that more and more doctors are declining Medicare as a payment option due to them losing money and not getting reimbursed in a timely manner? Walgreens, a very large pharmacy in USA, just stated that it will stop accepting new Medicare customers.

I noticed you did not address my post regarding what percentage of medical spending in US actually goes to profits or what examples you might have of their being a public institution having less bureaucracy that a private one. The only time private industry has an overwhelming size of bureaucracy is when the government imposes itself upon it with excessive forms and regulations.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By G3S3B Comments: 29124, member since Sun Oct 31, 2004
On Fri Mar 19, 2010 08:13 PM
Fuck Barack Hussein Obama!


Image hotlink - 'http://cagle.com/working/100315/ramirez.jpg'
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By canopus Comments: 113, member since Fri Apr 24, 2009
On Sat Mar 20, 2010 02:20 AM
MichaelE wrote:

Just the usual bullshit. America spends barely more than 4% of GDP on Defense.....a considerably lower percentage than it had spent in the 50s, 60s, 70s 80s etc yet the only thing the socialists can focus on is Defense.

America neither wants nor can afford socialized medicine. Obviously for those who are not American citizens, America's budget priorities are none of their fucking business.


Now let`s stick to the Truth here - officially, the US spends 4.7% GDP on defence - which is still over twice as much as anyone else (China 2.1%); the usual is 1-2%. However, as I have showed repeatedly - vast amounts of defence spending is hidden under Energy for anything nuclear; Special allocations for the Wars; Health care or Social Security for Veterans expenses; USAID for arming US co-programmes with various oppressive regimes and so on.

The US is responsible for about 50% of World military spending and you are 5% of the World`s population - doesn`t that suggest you are spending too much ? Graph from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute - but the data is freely available.

44% of US taxation goes to Defence spending - simply ludicrous.
You cannot run a budget like that - chronically borrowing to shoot people up around the World ! The country has no significant enemies to justify that level of spending.

So what is it for ? Who is served by such apparent waste ?
Is the US fighting some of these insurgencies on behalf of their creditors ?
The Saudi`s are paranoid about democracy movements (dressed up as mad Muslims, natch) as are the other dictatorships in the Middle-East. They don`t want bloody democracy - and they include all of the US`s friends there. So maybe Iraq and Afghanistan are being done for those `kings` and associated cronies - who are easier to do business with than some messy elected government. Good to have local bases of operation for that region that won`t cause riots !

They`re killing people in Yemen and Pakistan( a democracy !) as well now - all terrorists of course; it`s funny you never hear anything about democracy movements from any of these countries, or human rights activists or unionists or student activists... no anybody who opposes a family dictatorship or the US military is a terrorist. Weird, eh :D

Do you think the Saudis keep supporting the $US dollar system for oil trade out of love and admiration ? Or is it because the US have military there, they have trained up and tooled up the Saudi regime - whose only enemy is their own people, and they studiously avoid involvement in Human Rights abuses in Saudi and co. `Gun for Hire` not a bad theory mmm.. as well as the oil and the Empire of course.

As for your `American citizens only` nonsense. As the saying goes `if the US gets a cold, the World sneezes`. Your chronic debt, failing dollar and military adventures affect us all, sonny - we all have a stake in the US returning to sanity.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By MichaelE Comments: 9620, member since Sat May 14, 2005
On Sat Mar 20, 2010 03:37 AM
44% for Defense spending? No dumbass you are ignoring entitlement programs as well as state and local spending. Besides.....we certainly don't need some foreigner to tell us how we should allocate our budget. We can make those decisions on our own thankyouverymuch. Now fuck off.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By Johnny_Ola Comments: 5081, member since Sat Apr 28, 2007
On Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:24 AM
canopus wrote:

MichaelE wrote:

The US is responsible for about 50% of World military spending and you are 5% of the World`s population - doesn`t that suggest you are spending too much ? Graph from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute - but the data is freely available.


You are correct. We have spent way too much protecting sheltered little Europe. Sorry for keeping you safe during the cold war. Our apologies. By all means, do not bother building a viable military of your own and keep on increasing entitlement programs your new multiculutural guests.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan (karma: 1)  en>fr fr>en
By faqufrance Comments: 4862, member since Wed Nov 17, 2004
On Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:46 AM
Edited by faqufrance (75517) on 2010-03-20 10:58:28
Ass filled with puss,

Do us all a favor.. why dont you pull up the wages for medical workers in europe as compared to the US. Try Germany on for size. Let's talk about a living wage for someone wh invested upwards of 300K for an education.

Let's also talk about the brain drain from most countries around the world to the US.

I know it must suck to be a socialist.. that is why we are fighting it here. If your worth a shit, you might be able to immigrate here. But, most likely, your just another useful idiot and there is plenty of dogshit on the street that needs to be picked up during your average workday.. get back to scooping, commrade!


As far as defense spending, who in the hell do you think you have been able to spend sooo much on social programs in europe, dumbfuck. Uncle Sam has been protecting your sorry asses for way to long. It's funny to watch you bitch and moan about this as well. Cause a cunt like you and your mom, would be the first to cry when we were not there to bail your asses out. You euro-peons expect us to bail your sorry asses out everytime, then you turn around and bitch and moan.. so euro of you.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By canopus Comments: 113, member since Fri Apr 24, 2009
On Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:44 AM



canopus wrote:

The US is responsible for about 50% of World military spending and you are 5% of the World`s population - doesn`t that suggest you are spending too much ? Graph from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute - but the data is freely available.


michaelE wrote:

You are correct. We have spent way too much protecting sheltered little Europe. Sorry for keeping you safe during the cold war. Our apologies. By all means, do not bother building a viable military of your own and keep on increasing entitlement programs your new multiculutural guests.


Pwaha - why do you labour under this delusiion you`re protecting everyone ?
Protecting them from who or what ?
Most of the refugees are fleeing the chaos created by US military actions, or from US arms sales cranking up local disputes. The US is responsible for 70% of arms sales to the developing world. 70%, no-one else comes even close.

Maybe if the US stopped tooling everyone up, things could actually settle down a bit.
It`s all about making money for corporations and creating the instability which encourages arms buying. `protecting` pah, grow up and live in the real world.

tinyurl.com . . .
This is a financial site - very clear figures, including the graph above of arms sales to the Developing World 2008.
re: FACT CHECK: Premiums would rise under Obama plan en>fr fr>en
By MichaelE Comments: 9620, member since Sat May 14, 2005
On Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:59 PM
[michaelE] You are correct. We have spent way too much protecting sheltered little Europe. Sorry for keeping you safe during the cold war. Our apologies. By all means, do not bother building a viable military of your own and keep on increasing entitlement programs your new multiculutural guests.[/MichaelE]

can of puss wrote:


Pwaha - why do you labour under this delusiion you`re protecting everyone ?
Protecting them from who or what ?
Most of the refugees are fleeing the chaos created by US military actions, or from US arms sales cranking up local disputes. The US is responsible for 70% of arms sales to the developing world. 70%, no-one else comes even close.

Maybe if the US stopped tooling everyone up, things could actually settle down a bit.
It`s all about making money for corporations and creating the instability which encourages arms buying. `protecting` pah, grow up and live in the real world.

is is a financial site - very clear figures, including the graph above of arms sales to the Developing World 2008.[/can of puss]

Pathetic Dumbass, I didn't even write the quote you attributed to me. Now moving on Timmah!.....

Protecting Yurpland from what? Well let's see....we protected Yurpland from the Commies. Before that the Yurps bitched that we didn't bail their asses out fast enough for the second time in the last century. Oh yeah, there were those whole Bosnia and Kosovo things in the 90's where they arrogantly told us that "this is not the hour of America, this is the hour of Europe" before pulling a giant faceplant when their empty words and talk didn't do squat and they were so pathetically weak that they had to turn to America and scream "YOU'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!!" to deal with tiny little Serbia.

Oh but now it doesn't count anymore you see.....at least until the next time they frantically turn to America and beg to have their pathetic, cowardly, lazy asses bailed out again. Then as soon as its done they will go back (in their own minds) to being so much "smarter", "more civilized" and "more sophisticated"....at least until the next time their flaccid penises can't get the job done. Same ole same ole.

Once again, America currently spends less on its defense than it has for the last few generations as a percentage of GDP and besides that, its none of your fucking business what our budget priorities are anyway. You are not an American. You do not get a vote.....nor should you. Ever.
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