JacquesOff wrote:

hungNV wrote:

People don't realize it, but by nuking them, not only did we save American lives but also saved the japs from themselves.

Fucking heathens were the Nazi version of Asia.

Don't fuck with the USA!

Yes sir. Hundreds of thousands of more civilians would of most likely died from starvation by the time we could of invaded and taken Japan over.

naturalizedtexan wrote:

To put the projected invasion of Japan in perspective:

The US Army did a study on the number of projected casualties from an invasion of Japan. Based on formulas derived from the fighting on Saipan, the Philippines and Okinawa, the War Department estimated A MINIMUM of 1.4 million casualties, including 400,000 - 800,000 dead. (Total US deaths in WW2, all theaters, was 418,000.)

Projected Japanese casualties were less precise, but 10 million is the generally accepted figure.

The two atomic bombs killed 120,000 outright, with another 150,000 deaths attributed to the effects of the bombs.

One poignant fact: the US pre-ordered so many Purple Hearts for the projected invasion of Japan than NO FURTHER ORDERS for Purple Hearts were placed until 2006. Just think: all those wounded & killed in Korea, Viet Nam, Grenada, Panama, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places since 1945 received "Japanese Purple Hearts."

naturalizedtexan wrote:

To put the projected invasion of Japan in perspective:

The US Army did a study on the number of projected casualties from an invasion of Japan. Based on formulas derived from the fighting on Saipan, the Philippines and Okinawa, the War Department estimated A MINIMUM of 1.4 million casualties, including 400,000 - 800,000 dead. (Total US deaths in WW2, all theaters, was 418,000.)

Projected Japanese casualties were less precise, but 10 million is the generally accepted figure.

The two atomic bombs killed 120,000 outright, with another 150,000 deaths attributed to the effects of the bombs.

Mafioso wrote:

The Japanese government was attempting to end the war while keeping some honor. The US government required total surrender without conditions knowing that for a Japanese mindset this was utterly unacceptable.

crapaudazur wrote:

I don't question the goodness of Truman and his philantropic desire to preserve Japan from the horrors of an invasion, but I doubt the value of your argument in itself.

To put it bluntly, how can you put on a same level a fact that did occur, a event that really happened, and an mere assumption ?

"...the statistical possibility of a million casualties, combined with theexperience of combat attrition of line infantry units in both Europe and the Pacific, had already prompted the Army and War Department manpower policy for 1945, and thus, the pace for the big jump in Selective Service inductions and expansion of the training base in the U.S. even as the war in Europe was winding down...

tozer wrote:

Mafioso wrote:

The Japanese government was attempting to end the war while keeping some honor. The US government required total surrender without conditions knowing that for a Japanese mindset this was utterly unacceptable.

So the lesson here, which should be applied to all American theaters of war, is that deadly enough force can alter a civilization's culture into submission. O
I
There are a lot of proud towel heads out there. The propaganda of democracy isn't doing much to influence those cultures but there are some weapons that could evaporate that stubbornness in a "flash".

Mafioso wrote:

Bollock for the third time.

The Japanese government was attempting to end the war while keeping some honor. The US government required total surrender without conditions knowing that for a Japanese mindset this was utterly unacceptable. The US government chose to kill thousand of people because words on a paper did not match what they wanted? Of course not: the US wanted testing both bombs in real conditions. The message has to be delivered to some in the world.

Truth is disturbing, but you have to face it and accept it.

The right question is not whether it was necessary using the bomb to end the war

but rather were hundred of thousand casualties worthing the demonstration of the strategic dominance of the US in the world and specifically referring to Russia.

This is debatable.

Mafioso wrote:

The right question is not whether it was necessary using the bomb to end the war but rather were hundred of thousand casualties worthing the demonstration of the strategic dominance of the US in the world and specifically referring to Russia. This is debatable.

naturalizedtexan wrote:

Mafioso wrote:

Bollock for the third time.

The Japanese government was attempting to end the war while keeping some honor. The US government required total surrender without conditions knowing that for a Japanese mindset this was utterly unacceptable. The US government chose to kill thousand of people because words on a paper did not match what they wanted? Of course not: the US wanted testing both bombs in real conditions. The message has to be delivered to some in the world.

Truth is disturbing, but you have to face it and accept it.

"I now have come to accept in my mind that in order to end the war, it could not be helped (Shikata ga nai) that an atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki and that countless numbers of people suffered great tragedy." - Japanese Defense Minister Fumio Kyuma, interview given 30 June 2007.

"It's very regrettable that nuclear bombs were dropped and I feel sorry for the citizens of Hiroshima but it couldn't be helped (Shikata ga nai) because that happened in wartime." Emperor Hirohito in interview given 1975, quoted in Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan, by Herbert Bix, Cambridge University Press, 2001: pp 676 (He never really cared about the civilian casualties, just the "honor" of his person.)

"The intercepts of Japanese Imperial Army and Navy messages disclosed without exception that Japan's armed forces were determined to fight a final Armageddon battle in the homeland against an Allied invasion. The Japanese called this strategy Ketsu Go (Operation Decisive). It was founded on the premise that American morale was brittle and could be shattered by heavy losses in the initial invasion. American politicians would then gladly negotiate an end to the war far more generous than unconditional surrender." - Why Truman Dropped the Bomb, by Richard B. Frank, published in The Weekly Standard, Volume 010 (44), August 8, 2005.

Don't forget, a not-so-small faction of the Japanese military government attempted to stop the broadcast of Hirohito's surrender statement. They were even willing to kidnap him to stop the broadcast.

lookanlearn wrote:



I guess I will have to repeat that Japan did not want to go the way of the New Zealand Maoris, the Ozz aborigonies or the Injuns of N. America, nor any of the other countries now ruled by `former European` types.

Why wouldn`t they fight for their survival and honor?

VAVD wrote:

Maybe you can tell us about the gentle and considerate way the Japanese treated those they conquered?

VAVD wrote:

lookanlearn wrote:



I guess I will have to repeat that Japan did not want to go the way of the New Zealand Maoris, the Ozz aborigonies or the Injuns of N. America, nor any of the other countries now ruled by `former European` types.

Why wouldn`t they fight for their survival and honor?

Maybe you can tell us about the gentle and considerate way the Japanese treated those they conquered?

PopsFrost wrote:

VAVD wrote:

Maybe you can tell us about the gentle and considerate way the Japanese treated those they conquered?

LookieLou is hiding out in Japan, and that is undoubtedly what his hosts tell him. More realistically, the Japanese knew how they treated those that they conquered. They were very fortunate to have been conquered by such a benevolent and peace loving nation.

korbach wrote:


That's funny how the wankees need "moral justifications" to try
to delude themselves from the fact that they just are as savages
as anybody else in time of war. During WWII, it was a daily issue
to burn whole cities with incendiaries, and few people --if nobody, saw a matter of concern in this very simple fact. People
just got used to live with that, this is also what makes us humans --Americans as well , able to cope with this kind of situations.

PopsFrost wrote:


So the American occupation of Japan was the equivalent of the Japanese occupation of China? You're a sick fucker. You know that there is no comparison but you make the claim because it fits in with your hatred of America. You're not only intellectually dishonest, you're a sick fuck. Enjoy the fruits of your moral relativism. Don't think your new muzzie citizens won't use it against you.

korbach wrote:

PopsFrost wrote:


So the American occupation of Japan was the equivalent of the Japanese occupation of China? You're a sick fucker. You know that there is no comparison but you make the claim because it fits in with your hatred of America. You're not only intellectually dishonest, you're a sick fuck. Enjoy the fruits of your moral relativism. Don't think your new muzzie citizens won't use it against you.

As the genuine imbecile you have ever been, you just missed the point, but thanks anyway for the entertaining moment !

PopsFrost wrote:

[

Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were fronch, but you're a Nazi. That explains the need to make all wars morally equivalent. The Americans killed German soldiers = the Germans setting up the wholesale slaughter of millions of women and children.

I guess I will have to repeat that Japan did not want to go the way of the New Zealand Maoris, the Ozz aborigonies or the Injuns of N. America, nor any of the other countries now ruled by `former European` types.

Why wouldn`t they fight for their survival and honor?

Rape of Nanking: 1937-1938 300,000 Deaths

In December of 1937, the Japanese Imperial Army marched into China's capital city of Nanking and proceeded to murder 300,000 out of 600,000 civilians and soldiers in the city. The six weeks of carnage would become known as the Rape of Nanking and represented the single worst atrocity during the World War II era in either the European or Pacific theaters of war.

The actual military invasion of Nanking was preceded by a tough battle at Shanghai that began in the summer of 1937. Chinese forces there put up surprisingly stiff resistance against the Japanese Army which had expected an easy victory in China. The Japanese had even bragged they would conquer all of China in just three months. The stubborn resistance by the Chinese troops upset that timetable, with the battle dragging on through the summer into late fall. This infuriated the Japanese and whetted their appetite for the revenge that was to follow at Nanking.

After finally defeating the Chinese at Shanghai in November, 50,000 Japanese soldiers then marched on toward Nanking. Unlike the troops at Shanghai, Chinese soldiers at Nanking were poorly led and loosely organized. Although they greatly outnumbered the Japanese and had plenty of ammunition, they withered under the ferocity of the Japanese attack, then engaged in a chaotic retreat. After just four days of fighting, Japanese troops smashed into the city on December 13, 1937, with orders issued to "kill all captives."

Their first concern was to eliminate any threat from the 90,000 Chinese soldiers who surrendered. To the Japanese, surrender was an unthinkable act of cowardice and the ultimate violation of the rigid code of military honor drilled into them from childhood onward. Thus they looked upon Chinese POWs with utter contempt, viewing them as less than human, unworthy of life.

The elimination of the Chinese POWs began after they were transported by trucks to remote locations on the outskirts of Nanking. As soon as they were assembled, the savagery began, with young Japanese soldiers encouraged by their superiors to inflict maximum pain and suffering upon individual POWs as a way of toughening themselves up for future battles, and also to eradicate any civilized notions of mercy. Filmed footage and still photographs taken by the Japanese themselves document the brutality. Smiling soldiers can be seen conducting bayonet practice on live prisoners, decapitating them and displaying severed heads as souvenirs, and proudly standing among mutilated corpses. Some of the Chinese POWs were simply mowed down by machine-gun fire while others were tied-up, soaked with gasoline and burned alive.
Maps & Photo
Present day map of China showing location of Shanghai and Nanking (now called Nanjing).
Map of the Japanese Empire at its peak in 1942.
One of the last humans left alive after intense bombing during the Japanese attack on Shanghai's South Station. August 1937.

After the destruction of the POWs, the soldiers turned their attention to the women of Nanking and an outright animalistic hunt ensued. Old women over the age of 70 as well as little girls under the age of 8 were dragged off to be sexually abused. More than 20,000 females (with some estimates as high as 80,000) were gang-raped by Japanese soldiers, then stabbed to death with bayonets or shot so they could never bear witness.

Pregnant women were not spared. In several instances, they were raped, then had their bellies slit open and the fetuses torn out. Sometimes, after storming into a house and encountering a whole family, the Japanese forced Chinese men to rape their own daughters, sons to rape their mothers, and brothers their sisters, while the rest of the family was made to watch.

Throughout the city of Nanking, random acts of murder occurred as soldiers frequently fired their rifles into panicked crowds of civilians, killing indiscriminately. Other soldiers killed shopkeepers, looted their stores, then set the buildings on fire after locking people of all ages inside. They took pleasure in the extraordinary suffering that ensued as the people desperately tried to escape the flames by climbing onto rooftops or leaping down onto the street.

The incredible carnage - citywide burnings, stabbings, drownings, strangulations, rapes, thefts, and massive property destruction - continued unabated for about six weeks, from mid-December 1937 through the beginning of February 1938. Young or old, male or female, anyone could be shot on a whim by any Japanese soldier for any reason. Corpses could be seen everywhere throughout the city. The streets of Nanking were said to literally have run red with blood.

Those who were not killed on the spot were taken to the outskirts of the city and forced to dig their own graves, large rectangular pits that would be filled with decapitated corpses resulting from killing contests the Japanese held among themselves. Other times, the Japanese forced the Chinese to bury each other alive in the dirt.

After this period of unprecedented violence, the Japanese eased off somewhat and settled in for the duration of the war. To pacify the population during the long occupation, highly addictive narcotics, including opium and heroin, were distributed by Japanese soldiers to the people of Nanking, regardless of age. An estimated 50,000 persons became addicted to heroin while many others lost themselves in the city's opium dens.

In addition, the notorious Comfort Women system was introduced which forced young Chinese women to become slave-prostitutes, existing solely for the sexual pleasure of Japanese soldiers.

-www.historyplace.com . . .